Living Systems, Warm Data & the Ecology of Communication
NORA BATESON
NORA BATESON
Living Systems, Warm Data & the Ecology of Communication
Episode Summary
In this episode, Julien Devaureix welcomes Nora Bateson — filmmaker, writer, educator, and president of the International Bateson Institute — for a profound exploration of how we can better understand and relate to the complexity of our world. Drawing from her latest book Combining, Bateson examines how living systems are interconnected and why reductionist, mechanistic models are insufficient for today’s challenges.
She emphasizes the need to move beyond simplified “problems” and “solutions” and instead cultivate an ecology of communication that allows new possibilities to emerge. The conversation covers themes of identity, education, intergenerational living, environmental crises, and the risks of false hope. Bateson also introduces the concept of “warm data” — contextual, relational information often missing from analytical approaches — as key to thriving in uncertain times.
This episode encourages listeners to rethink how we define action, progress, and hope, embracing humility, creativity, and the art of combining to navigate complexity.
What do we talk about?
00:00 Introduction & Nora’s background; perceiving interdependencies in living systems
04:14 The “meadow” metaphor and the relational nature of complexity
16:59 Problems of reductionism in education and society
34:25 Excerpts from Combining: the idea of combining vs. combined
43:26 Rethinking problems and solutions; cultivating an ecology of communication
54:02 Double binds, transcontextual issues, and aiming for possibility & vitality
60:50 Warm data and the lost art of intergenerational living
66:06 False hope vs. real hope; culture and unexpected change
70:05 The role of art, weirdness, and creativity in shaping the future
75:23 Closing poem Mama Now: reflections on parenting, integrity, and uncertainty
IMPACT
Nora Bateson’s work has had a transformative impact on how individuals, organizations, and communities engage with complexity. As the president of the International Bateson Institute, she has pioneered the warm data approach, allowing for a richer and more nuanced understanding of systemic issues by including context, relationships, and lived experience. Her methodology has been applied in fields ranging from ecological regeneration and health systems to corporate governance and education reform. Her work helps groups shift from linear problem-solving to more relational, adaptive ways of working.
Her influence extends beyond academia and institutions: through her films, books, and global workshops, she cultivates spaces for transcontextual dialogue, where people can collectively take hold of the interdependencies that shape their lives. Bateson’s advocacy has inspired leaders, policymakers, and grassroots movements to rethink how to sustain both human and ecological vitality. Her impact is measured not only in ideas but in the living practices she fosters — helping communities rediscover intergenerational living, deepen resilience, and nurture creativity as a tool for systemic transformation.
